Val's Vibe Episode 6 featuring Kimber White, Partner, RE Financial Services and President-Elect, National Association of Mortgage Brokers

In Episode 6 of Val's Vibe, we’re thrilled to welcome Kimber White, partner at RE Financial Services and President-Elect of the National Association of Mortgage Brokers. 

Join us as we explore the dynamic world of the mortgage industry, reflecting on the challenges and triumphs of 2024 and casting an optimistic eye toward what 2025 holds. 

Kimber also shares valuable insights into NAMB Focus, the much-anticipated event shaping conversations and strategies for mortgage professionals nationwide. 

Whether you’re in the industry or just curious about the trends influencing homeownership and lending, this episode delivers expert perspectives and forward-thinking dialogue you won’t want to miss!

Transcript

 📍 Welcome everyone to probably the last edition of Val's Vibe for 2024. Not, of course, for, the whole podcast, but just for 2024. And it was bound to happen. I was bound to have, at some point, Kimber White my business partner with RE Financial Services. Also with NAMB, FAMP, whatever the case may be.

Welcome, Kimber to Val's Vibe. Thank you, Valerie. Of course, you say the best of 24 for last. So modest.

I thought what we would do first is retrospectively look at 2024 from a NAMB perspective, but also from an industry perspective. So if we look all the way back to January, 2024 NAMB Focus 2024, which was a great event. We wound up having some economic forecasting from one of our speakers who told us we would probably get six rate cuts.

Rates were going to be into the fours. It was going to be an amazing year for the mortgage industry. And here we are, the end of December. And that didn't really happen. Close to 7 percent again, where we started in 2024. Yeah. And, I know it's frustrating from a sales perspective because our borrowers or potential borrowers are seeing the fed come out cutting rates and expecting rates to get closer to that, 5 percent category that everybody wants.

What are you hearing from your borrowers? I think my borrowers probably haven't understood the whole year. The roller coaster ride that we've had those rates went up, they went down, they went up, they went down. Before the elections, we have rates, calling you going, Hey, we're at 6 percent today.

Oh, we're 5.99. We're heading in the right direction. A week later, I'm like we're at 6 and a half. The borrowers don't understand. They don't understand what the difference is. So I think more education than I've ever done. In recent years, even when the rates were high and low when they went up, I think people aren't understanding why the feds had so many rate cuts and we're having to educate them.

So the borrowers, I think borrowers are getting, believe it or not, getting settled in, but I think they're going to be used to this is what it is. And that's what I'm having to tell the borrowers. Don't sit on the fence. Don't wait for the rates to cut. I don't think we're here anymore. I'm going to wait till the rates get low.

I think that's gone off of social media that people Okay, suck it up. This is what it is. But I think borrowers got a little shell shock. I think that they realize now they've lost some equity, especially in Florida. They don't have the same rates that they had when they started.

They were going to wait. They've lost equity and paid more rent. I think they're waking up to some realization. And I think those of us in the mortgage industry are having to wake up too, we're not just salesmen. We are mortgage professionals and we're going to have to educate. And that's why, What's going on, man is so important, the education, because now more than ever, we have to continuously educate our borrowers because they're hungry for that because they don't.

And I think too, we're finding that we have to not just educate our borrowers, but also educate other professionals within the industry. Real estate agents, for example, I know one one day I was on Facebook and I saw some real estate agent posts. Once Trump gets into office, rates are gonna go into the fours.

What is everybody doing to prepare? And I'm just like, Oh my gosh. Yeah, it's crazy, and I think we're having to educate the entire industry, but not our borrowers. But I think more importantly, we have to educate ourselves. And I think I've. I think what I've seen this year more than ever, and I thought we really found how many people are really educated in our industry and not realize the importance and structuring deals because every deal now has this.

An issue because there's not simple out there. There's something going on where there's jobs or income so I think when we say the worst of 2024 The worst of 2024 is that we really find out how much lack of education and knowledge our industry has and how many people didn't care because the dollars are rolling in and it didn't matter and now we all realize that unless we're educated and experienced we're going to lose deals And it's an industry that we have to, I call it re educate because it's five or six years. It's really not been about education. It's been about pulling, laying low and improving the dollars. And I think those of us that lived through what I'll call the mortgage depression of 2008 to 2010, I think we are more cautious.

We have prepared ourselves for downturns. We aren't presuming that we're going to have some massive refi boom and that rates are going to go into the magical fives or fours. I think it's the folks that are new that maybe got into the industry. 2019 or later. And those people that have, and not that there's anything wrong with this NMLS ID numbers, seven digits start with a two.

Those people are they aren't used to what is happening. They haven't lived through it. Now, what the good part is they will have lived through it and they'll know what to do. For the next time that this happens, because it will happen again. I've heard you say, if not once a gazillion times, you've been in the industry for 38 years,  how many times has this happened?

Probably more than you can count on at least one hand, if not both hands. Yeah. I've always said what goes up comes down and it took 2008 for me to learn that because I was young. Although that was 16 years ago, I was younger and I was like, yeah, now money's going to keep coming and it's going to happen.

And it didn't, it's like the spigot. We're not there. We're never, I don't think we'll go back there because of the regulations that we have in place and everything. But I also think that we have to stop right now talking rates. Yeah. You heard me say that. 38 years. Stop talking rates, because it's not about the rate.

The rate comes up, the rate comes down. Talk about, educate yourself with the education that NAMB offers, and that's out there with the people like the Barry Habibs  and those people who teach you to sell the benefit of a mortgage, the benefit of a home. Why the home is that? There's more Gen Z Millennials getting into the home buying market who want to buy a home.

They either go rent or buy a house and they're ready to buy a house. And in the long run, it's the best investment they can. Stop talking rates, show them how they can buy the house, show them the benefits and show them what it's about. I know people are like, oh, it's easier said than done. It is. I had 20 percent off of a total just told you in 2024 to 2023, but I still produced over 100 loans this year and over 40 million.

So the business is out there and it's referral business. So the business is there. And I want everyone to let you know, this isn't doom and gloom. It's tough, but there's business there. We just have to realign ourself to the business and how it's being done. And it's not picking apples off the low branches.

It's actually having to climb the tree and get the apple that's getting ready to turn. It's a little harder work. It's education. It's not focusing on rates, focusing on the big picture. Yeah. And using your knowledge to build this referral database so that when a real estate agent does have a question, they'll come to you.

If they're, if somebody their neighbor has a question, they'll send them to you. So it's always being prepared to hold somebody's hand in whatever manner that it needs to be held. And I think that is, that's exactly holding the hand, but being there when you hold that hand and making sure that you're actually there with them, no matter what happens.

And you let them know and you act and you know what you're talking about. Don't just throw something around. I think that's the biggest reason I get referrals is because. I'm educated and people ask. And if you don't know something, say I don't know and get back with them. But I think that's your biggest tool going into 2025 more education.

networking closer to home than you ever network. Stop chasing the big, huge fish, real estate agent businesses. And I know that goes against a lot of people. So they're walking to the office and throw the hammer 1000 times. No, find a network that works and people new agents, brand new agents get the list of new agents.

Go after those agents and show them your worth and what you can help them with. They're greedy. They're wanting their Want to learn and that's how you find them Look, you've got an agent's been there 25 years You may get her if she screws up with her agent or something like that or you've got referrals But if you're not Just constantly on social media, influencing others, and being a helping hand.

Don't always be out there posting your closings. Be out there engaging and learning, asking questions. 2025 still will be a great year. I think the rates are going to hover probably in the sixes. I don't think we're going to go into the fives. If we do, God help us, and that'd be amazing. But I'm counting low sixes.

I'll be happy to stay below around six, six quarter. That's what I think we see. We've got too many variables. We've got a new presidency. We've got You know, tariff talks. We have this talk with, we don't know where we're going to land. I just know that we've got to continue realizing that we're here as professionals and if I can make it in 38 years, and I say that anyone else can, Valerie knows a long time, anyone else can too.

And I think that's just why it's so important to align yourself with people who are successful too. I think too, probably another thing that's helped you is choosing a niche. So your niche is condos. Of course, you're, you're in South Florida, a large volume of condos in that area. I think, Jack of all trades, master of none, is not something that you necessarily want to be in the mortgage industry.

Yes, of course, you need to know how to close. All types of loans have, a Swiss army knife of products available to you. But one of those knives is larger than everything else. And so it's okay to have condos as your specialty or VA or FHA or DSCR loans or commercial or whatever the case may be, but maybe pick one that you really become the master of.

Because you can always ask questions, I think the one great thing, one of the great things about being a mortgage broker is, yes, we're all competitors, but we don't necessarily always act that way that you have a network of people you can go to, to ask a question, but you at least are the master of one thing. Yeah, I think that's right. And also, don't be afraid to learn. I'm going to use the example for me, probably up until 21. I have not really done DSCR loans. Maybe once another here or there or whatever. I hated. I didn't want to do didn't want to be a part of this. I recall that I don't have time for those.

I don't have time for that mess. You're right. That was 21 though, . That was something happened between 21 and 24 . That was 21. Yeah. Guess what I do so many DSCR loans now and I went and learned how to do DSCR loans. And I'm not saying this with an ego. I'm dang good at them. I'm really good at doing DSCR loans and now I'm getting referrals for DSCR loans.

You know what, you wanna get your DSCR loan smooth and everything. Kimber's got to go to. Kimber knows it. He figures it out. He does it. But also align myself with lenders that would hold my hand, would walk me through it. They wouldn't just sit there. So don't be afraid to learn new things. Get your, master your one thing.

But be willing to open yourself up and learn, just like I just talked about, it's 2024 going into 2025. And I swore to Valerie, I'm never going to do reverse mortgages. I hate reverse mortgages. I'm not going. Just the other week I had a conversation about, Valerie, I'm really thinking I'm going to maybe start talking about doing some reverse mortgages.

Maybe it's because I'm 65 in my age, I don't know, but she said you can now relate. Yeah. She was maybe, everyone to get old transitions like that, but, but the fact is, I know that I need to go into that because people are coming to me. Because of my age and I'll say that and about reverse mortgages, it's so guess what?

I'm now going to learn to do reverse mortgages. Not that it's going to be my niche, but it's another tool that I'm going to have that I've steered away from. So we can never say I'm not going to do something because, it doesn't bode well for us because It takes a business, but not just about business.

It also takes referrals away. Yeah. Yeah. You don't want to have to tell your really good real estate agent, I don't really know anything about reverses and then refer them to someone else. And maybe they find a more pleasurable experience working with that other loan originator and they wind up shifting all of their business over there. And not to do a shameless plug for NAMB, but I'll go ahead. We are offering the Certified Reverse Mortgage Specialist Certification as well as the FHA Mortgage Professional Certification at NAMB Focus, which is January 9th to 11th in Orlando. Both of those are on a Saturday, so you can go Thursday and Friday to all of our speaking sessions, and then get yourself a certification.

I know one of the things that Liberty Reverse who's the sponsor of our CREV certification talks about is, and I think this was in 23, so it may be even more now, every single day, 10, 000 people turn 65. So every single day, So that is a large number of people. And as we have people who are living longer as we have people who, unfortunately, prices are increasing they may find themselves where either, like us, they worked for themselves.

We don't have, I don't, neither one of us have a pension, we're not going to get, we're going to get whatever it is that we've worked and saved for and planned for. But they're going to have social security or their own, they're going to have their IRAs or their investments, and they're going to have to figure out a way to live off of that and Something catastrophic may happen.

You just don't know, and you have to turn to the equity in your home. So you want to be prepared when people are experiencing those kinds of situations, or maybe they just don't want a mortgage payment anymore. It's it's so anyway. If you have not registered for NAMB Focus, please go to NAMB.

org. You can click on events and click directly on the NAMBBB Focus website. To use the discount code FOCUS2025, you can register for Thursday and Friday, all of those events for free. It'll zero out your general admission. You would just pay if you want to eat. Our lunch or you want to attend one of these certifications on saturday, but otherwise the event is free I know kimber you're gonna be on a panel with who tell us a little bit about your panel the panel is going to be on?

Freedom mortgage with me freedom mortgage, panel and basically it's with alan middleman from freedom And it's going to be about how to do your business. How do you attract your business? What are you doing? What makes you different? What's going to help you stand out? So that's a great panel that we're going to be out.

And I think to me, it's what we need to learn how to make sure that we stand out, what makes us successful, what makes us go forward, and how we can take from each other and learn. And that's, to me, it's what I've always tried and I'm excited about this panel. For sure, you know forever mortgage broker forever freedom.

I think it's going to be an excited panel that alex is a great job So that I believe is Thursday at 1. 30. Yes. Yeah. And so that's not safe to come see me. But you can see not just Timber. You can see myself. I'll be there all the time. You can see all of the NAMB board. You can see our current president, Jim neighbors.

But you can also see what I was putting all joking aside on that focus is really a way to kick your year off. And it's a shameless plug, but it's absolutely factual. It's how you, because right now we need to realign ourselves and our thinking and what we're going to move forward. But what we thought 2024 was going to be, not that it was a horrible year, but I think it was not as good as 2023.

2025 is going to have challenges, and I think when you have the likes of, of Barry Habib, and you have Chris Vinson, and then you have Plaza Home Mortgage, and you have a lot of the other lenders, you have the Apti, which you can mention. You have people that's going to actually give you tools, and that is something NAMB has always tried to do, and that's why we call it NAMB Focus, so you can focus, and why we have it in January, so you can focus on your business, and start your business plan, and.

Focus for the coming year and get tools that will help you. And now more than ever, what better way to go to somewhere and for free and have all these wonderful speakers and sit there and learn from your peers and learn from these speakers and set yourself up clear your head 2024 is gone. It leaves on Tuesday.

It's done and move forward and really become a part of a great 2025. And I think it's pretty important. It's also small enough that it's intimate enough that you can network, you can socialize, and I think you get more out of it than some of these big ones. We do a great damn national nationally, but this really is the way you energize yourself for 2025.

Yeah, no, I agree. The focus on this event is sales, marketing, and technology, but it also Is a way to kickstart your year. And yeah, not just hear the speakers, not just talk to the sponsors, but talk to the other attendees. See what they're doing to prepare themselves. What NAMB has tried to do is to take some of our speakers that we have at NAMB National and bring them to the East Coast.

We know not everybody can fly from. Florida or Alabama or Georgia or wherever you're coming from over to Las Vegas. So this is a way for you to experience some of what NAMB National has to offer, but in a more intimate environment so that you can really get the most out of the event and hopefully come away with a lot of resources, tools, feeling energized and ready to head into 2025.

Let's discuss some of our I guess disappointments of 2024. I would say from an association perspective, probably, and it could very well be the only disappointment, in my opinion, was not getting the trigger leads bill passed. We've, NAMB, for those who aren't aware, has been working on trigger leads really since and, Fair Credit does enable the credit bureaus to be able to sell information.

And this was the third legislative session that NAMB worked on having legislation introduced. Congress and unfortunately didn't happen. It came, it did come down to the zero hour. It made it through the Senate. And unfortunately it did not make it through the house. What are your, any thoughts on that?

Yeah, I think that we worked so hard and we've moved the needle so much in 2005. I've been involved with them since 2012. And I know that's been a fight since I've been here in a push and keep doing it. That's very disappointing. Do I think we're close? I still think we're close. I hear a lot of naysayers out there, but I think it will happen.

I think we're close. Again, we got another administration. We don't know what's going to happen, but we will, we'll see what happens. I think one of my disappointments with NAMB, with us with NAMB, that we didn't see in Forest Ambulance Center, is we still didn't get a lot of information. Help for the first time buyer and stuff through FHFA through the agencies that we were pushing a lot of that and I still think we need to continue that push, the MI the low level price and adjustments, all of those things we need to work on.

We've been working on them, but they really didn't get done. Any legs. I call it this year, and I hope next year they will with the new administration. I'm looking forward to us working on that. So I think that was one of the disappointments and that people still don't see the value of being a member of an association or NAMB.

I still think we're growing. We are growing. But my opinion is every mortgage broker or loan originator should be a member of NAMB. It's just for the benefits. I'm going to go back to giving a benefit of NAMB. Valerie's heard the story, but I think this is what everyone needs to know. In 2010, I went to a local meeting here.

A gentleman here, his NAMBe was Paul Bauer, and I was griping and griping about what was going on. The business was going to hell in a handbasket and things. And he turned right around to me. This is the most mild manner, kindest man in the world. If you really care that much about it, then shut the hell up and get involved, I was just like, he said what we all wanted to say to everybody that we ever complained.

And it took me almost two years, a year to get involved and I get involved locally and then nationally and then I met Valerie and then Valerie. For I call it the worst of her 12 years or the best of her 12 years, she invited me into the fold and I'm not sure sometimes she is best and the worst of 22 and four and other years, but that's what got me into it.

And I'm going to tell you, forget about the positions of what I've had, what I've done this member of NAMB, member of the local state association, my local chapter association, Has done more for me growing and my business than anything else could I do not think I would be as educated as I am. I wouldn't have the knowledge.

I wouldn't have the experience. I would be so many of these that I've still seen. It's out there talking stuff that you don't know anything about. And I'm not trying to be rude, but it's the fact because and the education and it expanded me into being able to be a better originator and a better person in the industry.

And when things were horrible and down and bad, as we all know. I had my peers, and I think that is another reason when you go to these meetings, and I was able to get on calls, and I was able to see other people, and I was able not to feel like I was on that island by myself, and to me, I'm sold, not because I'm part of the board of NAMB, I'm sold on the trade association, I'm sold on NAMB, because I know what NAMB has done, and what it's done for me personally.

Yeah, I of course 100 percent agree, if I think back over my Time with trade associations coming, my, my local chapter, my state association, national association the experience I gained, the education and knowledge that I have gotten the friendships and support system that I have gained the places that I've gotten to go, the people that I've gotten to meet never would have happened.

I believe would not have happened without my involvement in a trade association because, whether it's your state or your national, of course, I lean towards NAMB, and I know Kimber does as well. When would you ever get to, meet with the head of the CFPB? It's not like you can just walk in hello, I'm here.

We've, we've met, or I personally, I know Kimber as well, has met with the head of FHFA multiple times, the head of HUD, the head of VA. We have, not just worked on legislation, we have expressed the opinions of the mortgage industry. On either negative or positive regulatory actions.

And, through our involvement, we have, we are looked at as a source of knowledge a respected professional in the industry. And, that says a lot for us, but it also hopefully, shows that we're willing to also share our knowledge. We don't want to just keep it stuck in our heads.

We want to spread it, spread the wealth so that the next folks after us, and I know there will be other folks, of course, I know we broke the mold, but There will be some other Kimber's and Valerie's along the way at some point, that they are doing great things as well. So definitely being part of an association and we are the only national trade association that.

Advocates on your behalf that has a lobbyist in Washington DC that represents mortgage brokers. We have a political action committee. We have certifications, on and on. Of course, we are we always will give shameless plugs to them, but. And I think that, I'm sorry. No, go ahead. I think we're looking at you saying that's one of the downfalls.

I then when we look at what happened one of the bad things that I felt 2024 in the industry and everyone wants talk about it. And it goes along with not getting legislation passed things. It's still the divisiveness. We're still in 2024. Yeah. And we still have divisiveness in our industry, I think more so than ever in 2024.

I mean, NAMB's always tried to bridge the gap, the. People that are out there in our industry. And like I say, I won't say how many years, but I've been here a long time. And I've not seen this, and it always will bother me. And I always will because. As you said earlier, we're here to help each other.

We're here to get to no matter who we work for. We don't. I don't feel I compete against anyone. I feel like there's enough people out there enough homes for me and we don't work together. The old saying was, one of the pig farmers get stuff done because They all work together and there's more of them.

That's our industry. When you have different factions working against each other and being negative, I think that, I hope 2025, and I'm glad to put a path of it will stop and it will come forward and will be positive and we'll Respect each other. We'll work together because to me the negativity hurts our industry.

It doesn't help our industry and it divides us when it should. We should be coming together, especially in a time that we came through in 23, 24, 25. We need to be working together. We need to be working together for the betterment of the mortgage industry. Like Valerie said, other people are coming along.

Like I've told her for a few more years, man, I'm done. Not because I don't want to, I'll still be there. I want to put other people in there. I want to put younger people in there. But I want to put people, and why do I still stay? Because I still see the negativity. I still see the infighting.

And I want to make it better. And I feel like I can be that voice. Valerie is that voice. NAMB is that voice. Anything to me that disappointed among other things and rates and everything, but is the fact that we're still divided and sometimes more than ever. Yeah, I think people want you to choose sides.

You have to be Democrat or Republican. You have, you, you have, you're left handed or right handed, you have to choose a side. And I don't think that's necessarily the case. My involvement in this organization there wasn't another organization, but regardless of whether there was or wasn't, this is the organization that I'm part of, and this is the organization that I help and support, but if another organization wants to attend an event, wants to talk, wants to whatever support similar causes, great, it's, It is, it takes so much energy to fight.

And I'm not saying that I don't fight. I will always fight for my profession, for my family, for my business, for myself. But I don't want to fight somebody just because of a side. It's just, Isn't necessary in this type of environment and in what we potentially are facing because we really don't know.

So let's talk about 2025. From we know Trump is going to go into office in January. We know who some of the players are, but we don't know who all the players are. We don't know who the head of the CFPB is yet. We don't know who the head of FHFA is yet, which are obviously two key positions.

So there's a lot of unknowns. I know there's a lot of talk about privatization of Fannie and Freddie, which. That's not going to happen overnight. If ever, we don't know. And there was a time, believe it or not, where Fannie and Freddie were privatized. It wasn't until 2008, where, of course, you know, because of other circumstances, they became under conservatorship.

The mortgage market did just fine when Fannie and Freddie were privatized. And if that's the way it goes, we will do just fine again. But. Why don't you give maybe a couple predictions or whatever you want to talk about as far as 2025. I think 2025 is going to bring changes. I think the rates, I think they will come down.

I don't think that we're expecting. I can't wait to hear what they are said next month and what Barry and others are saying about it next month. Because, when I'm seeing our economic indicator, they're saying hovering around sixes and stay there. I think we're going to see more people into the market as far as buying.

I think that we will see changes. At the CFPB, whether good or bad, we know that. I think the FHFA, I think it's going to look totally different than what it is right now. I think the focus is going to be A lot different than what they're focusing now. We have initiatives with HUD and with MI and those things.

I think HUD's going to be there. I think that our industry, fortunately or unfortunately, is going to probably see, and I hope, think it's unfortunate, anyone that gets out, I think we're going to see a fallout of people in our industry. On the first quarter if we continue to stay where we are, I think that there's several people just weren't prepared for this, and it doesn't mean you have to be, fall out, but you're going to have to put yourself into education and getting ready and getting into a mentor, having someone I think that we're going to see more in our industry of really what it's going to be like in the millennial and the Gen Z and those type, I think you're going to see a spurt of housing growth from them.

Because there's more coming into the market than ever. So I think those are the things I see possibly that's going to happen. Negatively if some of the things happen, we could see rates go up and we need to be prepared for that. The first quarter, everyone, in my opinion, needs to be prepared to be holding and in pattern of holding.

And realize that really, I don't think a lot's going to happen and that you really don't have to be solid to your base and farm. And the more education you can do, and be for the first quarter and just see where it happens. I think the third quarter is gonna be the real telltale of the inflation.

I just heard it's all last night on one of the news channels and again today. Everyone's broke. Money's not being spent. Everyone's not going to spend any more. But more credit card debt was spent this Christmas than before. And there's people in more credit card debt than before. Whether that's because they have to live or cost a living.

But guess what that does? That gives rise to inflation. And so that makes more economic instability going into the first quarter when numbers and things come out, because we just heard there's more spending that people that have money to spend on, so I think we've got a lot of uncertainty. I think it's still going to be a good year next year.

I think it's going to be a different year. We need to make sure we're prepared for that. I think I agree. I think any day that you wake up and you get to go to work and you get to do what you love is a good day. So it doesn't matter if it's 2025. 2035. If you are doing what you want, and you're enjoying yourself, it's a good day.

But I do agree as well. I think that we're going to see a lot of changes. especially within FHFA. I think or I should say I'm knocking on wood that some of these LLPA changes that went into effect, I think we're probably going to see them modified. I think that I think AI is going to become even more prevalent within our industry.

Some good and some bad, if you look at. Every aspect of the mortgage industry, and you think about what potentially could be replaced with automation. I think that people are thinking about that. Maybe not 25, but people are in the process of creating roadmaps of how they can save money, cost cutting measures from an administrative perspective and use AI to their benefit.

Now, that may eliminate positions. I know I heard some company earlier this year eliminated 70 percent of their underwriting staff through AI. That's, it's a little scary. And we may find that there are other aspects of the mortgage industry that Start to be phased out where AI is becomes more prevalent than people.

I don't think learn origination will necessarily go that way. I think what we will see is more states adopting legislation. To control the what is happening within AI, because you have so much software available, where people can create auto generated images And it make it look like somebody is talking, but they're really not talking.

And so I think we're going to see a lot of focus on that from a state perspective, which is going to have a much more immediate impact on the mortgage industry than anything that happens federally. And I think Trump is going to our president. Trump is going to take this next two years, 25 and 26.

And try to change as many things as he possibly can put at implement as many things as he focused on in his campaign as possible, because he really just has two years, the likelihood of him having a Republican House, a Republican Senate and a Republican president when the 2026 elections take place at the end of that year.

Are probably fairly low. Just if we look from a historical perspective. So I think we're going to see a lot of things happening very quickly from the Trump administration that we may not have anticipated. Be prepared for that as well. I think so too. And, when I look back onto, you said, we're going to go back to something good in 2024 and people are probably going to look at me and go, you're crazy.

The higher interest rates. Actually, we're good for 2024. I know people can meet your mortgage, but you're saying that no, we had, in my opinion, one through eight, so we had five, six, seven, I housing prices out of control, 50, 60, 70 percent more on some houses, 30 percent more. We had everyone in God's brother getting into our industry and what we just, and we were too busy.

To educate ourselves and to do money. So the rates adjust, they cool the market. They stabilized, in my opinion, the market and market that was out of control. Cause I think the market, I'm just going to say it was out of control. 50%. Hey, I'm happy six years. I got 125 percent increase in my property. But that's unsustainable.

We've worked that in history. And I think. In the industry, it made people pull back and those that weren't willing to move forward and to learn and to do what they wanted to do. They just wanted to, they left whatever part time job and came to get a job here part time. They got out fortunate or unfortunate.

I think it was unfortunate because anyone that loses their job. But I think. 2025, the same thing. We're going into a time that everyone believe this or not. It's a stable market. We are in a normal market. We are a little off on housing, but overall rates are in the sixes, strategic average, houses are sitting 60-90 days, strategic average, home prices are getting three to 5 percent increase strategic average, so I think we're going to go into 2025.

Of maybe a little bit above average with rates and those things but we're going to be an average real estate market And mortgage market that as you said people who got in 18 19 Didn't know what a normal market is. I think that is something that is coming to screeching What the heck happened here?

Well guys, this is a normal market, maybe a little cool but truthfully This is a normal market and it's a lot harder work and it's not as fun sometimes But I think you're right about 2025 I think That's why I tell everyone that we're not going to get a lot of change in 2025 as far as low rates and those things, because there's just too many variables.

I think we're going to have a stable market, stable rates rates that, people can afford. I agree with you. And I also, I hate to see anybody go into default and have their home foreclosed on, but that is part of a normal market. And, one of the things that COVID did, it was great to have that massive mini refi boom, but we've had an extremely low default rate since that time, and we see default starting to increase.

And, whether we like it or not, there are some negative aspects that have to happen to create a normalized market, because those foreclosed homes. A lot of times those are the homes that first time homebuyers are purchasing. Through it, those are the homes that investors are buying and fixing up and flipping and selling.

Those are the homes that that we see through short sales or REOs. All of those things are aspects of the mortgage industry that are necessary. They're a necessary evil, and we haven't had that for a while. And so while I hate to hear that defaults are increasing and I hate to see that anybody would lose their home to foreclosure that's just a normal part of the the mortgage marketplace.

Yeah, and I think one thing I want to put out because I've heard so much, we don't have any refinance and I've been just as guilty of saying that we don't have refinance. Honestly, because I haven't opened my mind. And I think in 2025, we all have to open our mind that first thing is, and I think you and I learned that the average person is not sitting on 2. 625 interest rates. Okay, they're sitting on interest rates in the mid threes. Okay, so people need to understand 3. 5 to 3. 75 is really the interest rate they're sitting on. Those of us that got into and got a 2. 625 or 2%, we are an anomaly. And yeah, we're going to sit on it. But, you've got those same people that even had that, they're sitting there paying 30 percent interest.

And we just heard this is the highest credit cards. I think 2025 has to go in a mindset, this is a refund market. It's a different refund market. It's equity line. Again, that's another thing. And Valerie knows I'm not going to do this stupid little equity lines that are 100, 000, 150. What I make off of it.

It's not worth it to me. I've done a lot of equity. So we have to rethink ourselves in 2025. And that's a positive to me that's come up and it's going to come. So we have to look at, look for opportunities. everywhere we can in 2025. And I think that's going to be a positive and not look on 2025 that we haven't had for a while is now we're gonna have to realign ourselves and look For opportunities everywhere.

But right now, I think more than ever in a refined market is going to happen. We need to start looking at those again, because there's people, even they're going to go from three and a half percent, but they're paying 30 percent credit cards, which is never going to pay off. They're sitting on 400, 000 of equity in their house, so they're going to get a six and a half percent interest rate and pay off all their debt and they're going to still reduce their payment, 700 a month. That is the type things we, as professionals, need to start doing, and I think 2025, we're going to see a lot more of it. And I think that's why, again, plug James and plug Nan, why it's important to be a part of associations and come to something we focus, because that is how we end up learning.

How do we do that? And getting out of that mindset of, I got to just look for purchases and chase the lipstick business. So we'll finish it up there. I will, we will agree that 2025 will be the year of opportunity. Yes. So thank you very much for staying with us for this final edition in 2024 of Val's Vibe.

As I mentioned earlier, NAMB Focus is the beginning of January 9th to the 11th in Orlando. If you haven't registered yet and you're in the area, please go to namb.org. The discount code is FOCUS2025. It'll zero out your general admission fee. If you want to hear or see Kimber and I live and in person, we will both be there in Orlando.

So we hope to see you there. And thank you very much for Supporting my podcast and just being open and welcome to, hearing my thoughts and the folks who are part of my podcast thoughts. So thanks everybody and looking forward to 2025.