🎙️ Val’s Vibe Episode 19-Trigger Leads, Advocacy & A Capitol Recap: Hot Off the Hill with Jim Nabors

 Fresh off NAMB’s powerful Legislative Conference, Val is back with NAMB President Jim Nabors for a jam-packed debrief you won’t want to miss! Episode 19 dives deep into the biggest advocacy moments straight from DC — from historic guest speakers (hello, White House rep!) to crucial conversations around affordable housing, VA modernization, and the ever-hot topic: trigger leads. 💥

Whether you're a seasoned mortgage pro or just getting involved in industry advocacy, this episode gives you the inside scoop on how you can make a difference — plus some laughs, real talk, and a whole lot of Val’s signature vibe. ❤️

🎧 Tune in, stay informed, and find out how to support the cause (even if it’s just $20/month). Because when it comes to protecting homeownership and our profession, every voice counts.

👉 PAC link included at the end of the episode! 

Transcript

  📍 Hey everybody, this is Valerie Saunders. Welcome to another episode of Val's Vibe. On my last episode, I was fortunate enough to have NAMB President Jim Nabors, who is joining me again today. And I told you that we would kind of give a recap of our legislative conference. That we just came back from we all just came back yesterday.

So hot off the presses. Welcome Jim Nabors. 

Thank you. So haven't seen you in a day. 

I know. I miss you. And, 

and so do I. I miss you too. And I would say our event was great. I think it was better than anyone anticipated it was gonna be. You know, we had a new location a little confusing for some people, but it was just put together, you know, fantastically, and you couldn't have asked for a better group of speakers than we had.

Oh, I agree a hundred percent. 

You know, we were lucky enough, you know, John Bell wasn't able to make it from the va. So he sent Terry Rouch who is the assistant director for the Loan Guaranty service, who did a great presentation on VA appraisals. And I think that by itself was worth the cost of admission.

I mean, his presentation was great. And then to follow him with Jordan Wood, who's the special assistant to the president. For public engagement and business liaison and probably about 27 years old, right? I mean, so this guy's gonna be around for 40 or 50 years and he did a great presentation. We talked a lot about affordable housing with him, which you know, we were just happy to get him.

We didn't understand what he was gonna be put, you know, what he would want to talk about. And so, you know, that was really interesting. You know, so I, I think that was 

the first person from the White House we've ever had. Right? 

The first person from the White House. So, and I, afterwards, I suggested that next year it's JD Vance, if not President Trump himself.



Well, hopefully he can pull those strings for us. Yeah. Now that we have a relationship. 

So, oh, honestly, I invited him back next year and he already, he was 

very good. 

He said he would come, so I'm. That'd be great. So, but you know, and when you just look, the, the order they fell into, you know, play it was, you know, it was just a jam packed day.

You know, when you have Congressman Cleaver you know, who is very passionate about affordable housing and that, you know, with 5 million units. Need needed to be built to meet the need today for the number of people that wanna be first time home buyers. It was, it was great. And you know, and, you know, we rotated, you know, we had Democrats and Republicans and to hear him followed up by, you know, Congressman Rose, who you know, of course, is the champion in the house along with Ritchie Torres of.

The trigger leads bill, but it's the same thing, was talking about the need for more affordable housing and moderate affordable housing and some misunderstanding that some people may have that, you know, this is, I, I like the fact he emphasized, hey, there's a lot of people just graduated from college or they've just graduated from trade school or been working in a factory that wanna get their first house.

But they can't, they can't live where they're, you know, where they're working because the houses are just too expensive and opening up something like that you know, that the government needs to pr to fall into. And it was like almost, you know, right after him when Congressman Flood was talking and we thought, for some reason I just thought he was gonna talk about flood.

Right. Which, which he did, but he came back on. Manufactured housing. And, you know, he talked about a development that he had he had visited with some other congressmen, which were basically, it was in an area and it was all prefabricated homes. And I told a little story about how in other countries they're recirculating the the bottles and they can build a three bedroom house just outta plastic for $4,000.

Now I don't think that's gonna work here, but it was great just to hear his concern about the need for for millennials to be able to afford their first house. And, and it was great. Then of course, you know, when you follow that up with Senator Reed who unanimously got the trigger leads Bill you know, approved last year in the Senate.

And it is, even though he is now the ranking member and not the chairman of the committee is going to do it again. He feels that there is enough support on that issue. We talked about plenty of other issues and I figure we'll get to the other issues, but trigger leads to me has been, you know, our main focus.

Yes, we're looking at affordable housing. Yes, we're looking at you know, helping, making changes to the, the VA Modernization Act, you know, other things that can help other people. But trigger leads I think is, is still the number one target for most of us in the industry. And you know, so and so, Senator Reed made a great presentation on it.

And where he feels to it's gonna go and it's April 4th, I think.

I think it's gonna be less than 10 days. It'll be introduced. And I think he is talking to Congressman Rose. And Congressman Torres. I think it's gonna be.

Not at the same time. 

That would be smart. I mean, it, I, I noticed too, like when we were talking to some of our legislators especially the house members the next day I think the fact that the Senate passed it unanimously and the house couldn't get any movement was very impactful to them. Kind of like, oh God, the Senate, you know.

Because I can't remember one of them referred to the Senate as the sleepy Senate. Got it. Unanimously passed. Right. But we couldn't get it done in the house. And so I think you know, that, that almost is, had more impact than anything else on those house members because, you know, they probably had a feeling that they were going to do something before the Senate could.

Yeah. I, since it was introduced before, we all just assumed it would be right, but but still we can't argue over the results. Well, especially with, 

with, you know, what's happening to the rates with the tariffs and the stock market. I mean. You know, we're, we have a large segment of the population that is either, that's probably on the verge of refinancing, and of course we're coming into the spring buying market.

So, I mean, trigger leads are just gonna go through the roof. 

Yeah, you're probably right. So it'd be nice if before the end of the summer they didn't exist anymore. 

So we 

all could do what, you know, we can do. You know, Ritchie Torres, Congressman Ritchie Torres, when he talked to us, same thing. He thinks this needs to be done quickly.

That, and, but he also talked about the fact that it was the house leadership, not the house leadership, the committee leadership of financial institutions. That was the hold up. They just would not let it go. So. I know when we're done talking about, or one day when we talk about going to the hill, we will talk about, you know, visiting chairman French's staff and their feelings on it.

So that was but that was pretty good. I mean, it wasn't the whole day, but I mean, just so far. And then, you know, the guy I did like though Eric Ellman, who's president of National Credit Reporting Association. Hard group to come talk to. We were talking about trigger leads and but a great guy, you know, and talked about the process, talked about the fact that he didn't work for the three credit bureaus and you know, how, how the pricing works out and what, what they look at.

To try to be as equitable as possible. And that you know, some, you know, all the reforms you're hearing, you know, one vantage score, one credit bureau. I think the one person in the audience ask them, you know, if every, if every creditor's required to report the same thing, all three credit bureaus, why do you have to have a tribe merge?

Why can't you just have one credit report? And you know, because I know in the past. You just had to report to one of three credit bureaus every quarter. Didn't matter which one, but now that you're required by law to, to report to all three of 'em it is, you know, tri merges have just been something that had been around for 50 years.

Well, maybe, or 40 years maybe. You know, it'd be interesting to see a change there. So, but 

Well, what was his response to going to a single bureau? 

I don't think he was that positive about it, about the idea because he is the President of the National Credit R eporting Association. But he did wonder, you know, it's a, I don't think anybody had ever asked him that before, and honestly, I hadn't been thinking about it that way until.

A person in our audience asked him, but I thought, you know, he gave a better understanding to everybody there on what has actually been going on and how the pricing's determined. And, and I thought, you know what? You might not be happy with what he had to say, but at least you walked out with a better understanding of how they see it works.

So, and you know, so I thought that was, I thought that was good. I give him 

kudos for being the credit guy coming into a room full of mortgage professionals. 

Yeah, you know what? 

It's a tough seat. Yeah, 

I was gonna say on everybody, people are looking at, this is the guy I want to talk to, you know, and it's like, okay, so then you got to talk to Len Wolfson, right?

Yes. Yep. Len Wolfson with he is with. A company called Federal Hall Policy Advisors, but he does have sort of a unique background in that he recently prepped for their confirmation hearings now hud Secretary Turner and FHFA Director Pulte. So he was able to spend a lot of time with them recently, kind of helping them.

I guess be able to field the questions in the Senate as far as those positions, which I'm sure was probably an interesting task. 

Right, right. Then of course, you can't have alleged conference without having somebody from Ohio. Right. Especially the 

president's from Ohio. 

That's true. So, we've had other guys from Ohio in the past, though.

Speaker Boehner, Michael Oxley, Bob Ney. I could go on and on, but you know, this is the second time Congressman Davidson has come to speak to us. Mm-hmm. And, and he was just great and, I didn't realize till I was reading his biography that he was born in Shelby, Ohio, and I have a personal connection to Shelby and he is like, afterwards he asked me, had you thought about moving there?

And I'm like, no, I'm a cl I'm from Cleveland. You're, you're too close to Cincinnati for me. And he is actually closer to Dayton. But the fact that. When we're talking to somebody who now he graduated from West Point and I got his master's degree from Notre Dame, but still lives in the general vicinity of where he grew up and hasn't moved out, was just great.

And his support, again, he talked about affordable housing, he talked about trigger leads. He talked you know, about our need for more people to have more options. Multi-units too, and our, our need for that. I, you know, I thought that went really well. So yeah, it 

was definitely an act an a a packed day, considering we started right at 9:00 AM and our last speaker, I think went on at three 30, so, right.

That's, that's a lot of, of opportunities for those in attendance to really get. The full picture of what's happening in DC and be able to ask questions. I mean, you're not gonna get too many opportunities like that. 

No. You know, and it wasn't like they hit and run, they came. Mm-hmm. They took time to talk to people.

They did, you know, speak in front of the group, but, you know, as, as they were walking out, they were a, everyone was a answering questions. And I think you know, we should have probably had a photo. Booth put outside because everybody wanted pictures with a congressman or a senator. Right. Or in my case Jordan Wood, the special assistant to the president.

But so I did think the whole event went really well, and I think, yeah. I 

I'm sorry, go ahead. 

I was just gonna say, I think everybody, you know, not only was it you know, beneficial to 'em, but I think they all had a good time. 

I agree. Yeah. I give I give kudos to our lobby firm, the Williams Group for really helping our organization step up our game as far as the speakers that we have at our legislative event.

Right. So, I, like I said, I don't know what else we could have done that made it any better than it was. 

Yeah, 

except before has had Vice President JD Vance, also from Ohio or or perhaps President Trump. But, you know, you gotta set goals and go from there, but absolutely. Room to grow. I didn't overall, and then, you know, following it up the next day when we went to the Hill and we had, I, you know, I haven't, I've talked to probably about 20 or 30 members that have.

You know, and who have called me and said, Hey, we talked to this person about the trigger leads Bill. We talked to this person about, you know, affordable housing or, you know, the other issues. The and I always get the name of the bill the modernization, oh, 

VA Modernization Act. 

Yes. And you know, got a lot of positives from there.

I was most impressed when we were were meeting with you know, with chairman French Hill's of who, who's now replaced the gentleman that held up the trigger leads Bill. And when we sat down and started talking about it, he, he knew more. He, he knew completely. He was a hundred percent geared in on it, knew all about it.

Did I mention he went to college in Cleveland, Ohio? 

Well, I think that was the guy actually from Senate Banking and Insurance. Who is the guy with Tim Scott? Chairman Tim Scott for Senate banking the two gentlemen for House Financial Services? 

Yes. Oh, you're right. What was your name? 

Brian and David.

Yeah, I believe 

who are a hundred percent up to date on it too. But you're right. It was the gentleman from Tim Scott's office that not only got his master's degree at John Marshall. Who's most famous? No, not John Marshall. 

Yeah, no, you're right. John. No, John 

Carroll University. 

Oh, John Carroll, 

most, their most famous graduate is Don Shula, but then he went to Cleveland State for his master's and he, he is from Canton, Ohio. So it was interesting. Yes. After we were done, him and I spent 20 minutes talking about the Pro Football Hall of Fame and when we were last there. His case a long time ago for his high school prom.

So, so I, so I at least beat him on that. But I think we had a great time. We and we got a lot of good feedback from everyone and, and that's really what it's all about. You know, the idea that you can come and our members can, from all the different states can talk to each other. Well, what are you doing in your state?

What are you doing in that state? Like Utah just passed the trigger leads Bill. And now California is interested, well, what can we do here? Or Washington? How do we do that? To be able to just talk among themselves? And then of course, you know, to have, I think that was one of the questions that somebody asked Eric Ellman and he said, you know, it might be tougher if you're doing business in multiple states for, it's gonna be confusing on which states have this long, which states don't.

Right. You know, so he felt, you know, national legislation is. Probably gonna be the, the end all. So I thought that was great. So, yeah, 

no, I agree. I mean, I think definitely with Utah and Idaho recently passing legislation, you know, the government needs to, since they're working on it already, don't drag your feet on it, because as you said, all that's gonna wind up happening is, is as other states legislatures meet.

They're gonna start doing the same thing. And it's just, it's gonna be so confusing and cumbersome to try to comply with all of these state laws. 

Right. So it's, it's really needs a national solution. 

Absolutely. Absolutely. 

But 

so, on the advocacy front, we should be looking for. Some announcement soon of trigger leads legislation.

Yeah, definitely. I think you know, like every other thing, every other event two years ago, Ritchie Torres dropped the bill right before he came and talked to us. But this year. I think Congress was officially closed before our alleged conference started officially closed over an unrelated issue of maternity leave for for members, female members.

Yeah. So that was just kind of strange. But still, you'd go in and they were still doing hearings and that was only on the house side, but they, the house was still doing hearings. And so it was but it did kind of throw a, a wrench in you know, getting anything filed this week. But ne next week is a whole new week and absolutely.

You know, we can keep good thoughts and I really, you know, we came so close to, one, get the Senate to pass the trigger leads bill unanimously in December of last year. And then to have the house at four o'clock it's in and at five o'clock it's out. 

Yeah. 

So, you know, that doesn't happen that often.

And now that we have different people that are, are in charge I, and everyone seemed to be positive that this was you. You know, this was bipartisan. Both the re all the Republicans and Democrats all feel it's time to address this issue. 

Right. 

And you know, there are all the other things we were talking about.

The, you know, our, our interest in affordable housing reforms to the GA bill down payment assistance, the cost of credit bureaus, all the other things that we talked about in it. I think everyone had one thing in the back of their mind is how badly they're being affected by one of our members took an application from his mother.

He pulled the credit bureau while he was at our event, and 15 minutes later, his mother called him and said, why are people calling me God? And, and, and, and I looked at him. I'm like, and he's 60, so his mom must be in her eighties or nineties. Eighties probably. And she doesn't understand. 

Right. 

You know, and, and I, I think that's the, I think that's one of the reasons besides us constantly talking about it is to, to listen to you know, Congressman Flood, talk about the number of people that are, you know, calling his office on it, 

you know?

Mm-hmm. 

Saying, Hey, why is this happening to me? Or, you know, it was, or. Is there, is my information being stole? Is it being sold? Not only stole, but then sold someplace? And and, and I don't think it's, we know it's not being sold, right? It's just their information is being sold. 

Yeah. It, it's being sold and they presume it's being sold by us, the loan originator when it's, yeah.

Like, why would you do this? Right, 

right. Well, 

that's the other thing that some of the some of the congressmen realized is you know, the people that are, they've heard back from the, like the community bankers that people are calling them and pretending that they're with that community bank. And then the next thing you know is the community bank is calling them going.

What the, what's, why are you, why are you having somebody else call me? I just, I've been banking with you for 30 years because they're not, they're not huge. They're not huge banks. They're just 400, $500 million banks, which we all know in the banking industry is not a lot of money anymore. But I think, well, I think, 

I'm sorry, go ahead.

No, go ahead. 

I was just gonna say, I, I think that's the problem is. We're, we all can only pull from the three bureaus. So it doesn't matter how small or mid-size or large you are, whether you're in a rural community, you're in a, a large metropolitan city, or you're in a suburb, everybody is subject to getting sold.

It. It doesn't matter. All it matters is, is that it is a mortgage inquiry. So it's, it's frustrating. Regardless. I mean, it, there isn't anybody that it doesn't affect, 

no. So I'm sorry if during this, this edition of Val's Vibe, maybe the next time we can expand to other things that I, I concentrated mostly on trigger leads because that's what, when I talk to our members, that's, that's their number one issue.

And. But at the same time, they're like, Hey, cost of credit bureau affordable housing down, payment assistance, whatever it is they're interested in. When our interest rates coming down, for some reason people call me and think, you're the president of m When will interest rates come down? I'm like, boy, I'll, I'll the bat phone ringing.

I'll work, I'll work on that Saturday. Right. But but I think that's, you know. Something else that everyone's concerned about what's gonna happen with interest rates and no one truly has a definite you know, can do any guarantees on us, right? 

But, 

so in, you know, we have a lot a legislative event every single year, and obviously, you know, we send out calls to action, but what is another way that somebody in the mortgage industry can.

Support the cause. You know, I know there's a lot of talk about political action committees and, you know, you've obviously been involved in Nam Spac for a while. How, what, how can they support NAMB through that and what does that actually mean? 

Well, NAMB PAC is our, our, our is an additional voice. NAMB, you know, we, we attend a lot of events for, and we're truly bipartisan.

We're all about the mortgage industry. We're not about all the other things that separate Republicans from Democrats we're all about housing. 

Mm-hmm. 

And you know, when, when people donate to mpac, they, they have to understand that that money is gonna go you know, to candidates that. Are supportive of our industry.

And, but the other thing we like to do is if instead of just writing a check and send it to a campaign committee we put more of an emphasis on your congressman is having an event. And you going there so you get more, you get face time in it. So you're just not writing a check to a political action committee.

And then they're gonna bundle it and maybe their staff's gonna take it over. Their president's gonna, their lobbyists are gonna attend the events. We really believe that we want wasn't long ago that. Congressman told me the only one I wanna see more than you Mr. Neighbors, is somebody who can actually vote for me.

And so that's been our emphasis when an event comes up and that's what NAMB PAC money will go for, to, for us to send people from, whether it's somebody from Ohio or somebody from Florida, or somebody from California or Colorado, or. Nebraska or Tennessee, or Missouri or Rhode Island, we're good. You know, we wanna send somebody there that can better explain to them.

And just a hired, you know, a, a staffer from one of the other you know, one of the big banks associations or something like that, that is able to, you know, relate to 'em personally and even better if it's, they're not only from the same state. They're in their congressional district. It is, it is even better.

I know the Ohio Association met with you know, our, our two senators and the one thing they said is we'd like to talk to bill Pulte. And they're like. Would you guys come to, would you come meet us in Columbus for him, which is the state capital of Ohio. And when I wasn't in on the conversation, I'm like, hell yeah we'll meet, we'll meet him in Ohio.

Right? And I think every state's experience the same thing. So, you know, not only do we have states wanting to participate in events, but we also have people that wanna help. How do I organize an event for a congressman? Mike, well, first you better have at least nine other friends. 

Right. 

You know, because I, I don't know about you, Valerie, but I mean, I, I've, I've been to to congressional fundraising events at people's houses, and I Yes, I have too.

I'm not talking about. You know, multimillion dollar houses. I'm talking about you ride down the street, it's the fourth house on the corner, you know? 

Mm-hmm. 

And people are parked in the driveway and up and down the street and it's just, you go in and sit around the kitchen table and talk. And that's what we really need to put more of an emphasis on.

If there's one thing we could do better, it's that, have our people go out and get to talk to. You know, not think, oh, I gotta fly to dc No, you don't. You know, you're, it, he's your congressman. Right. I didn't get the opportunity to meet my congressman this time, but his office is only nine, nine miles from my house, and I've dropped in there at least three or four times.

So, 

yeah. Yeah. I, I've, I've had the pleasure of, attending several PAC events on behalf of NAMB or other or, or my state trade association. And, you know, to go, like, the two of 'em I went to are at Disney World. And, you know, you go to the Liberty Tree Tavern and you're sitting there eating your, you know, your dinner and you've got your congress, congressman, and their spouse.

You're there for an hour and a half and they're not you know, they don't have the distraction of a committee meeting or their aides or you know, whatever's happening in dc The only distraction they have is what ride am I gonna, you know, go on after I leave here? And, you know, you can, it's, it's very, very impactful.

And, you know, you can just. It's easy to express yourself when you're in that sort of an environment. Right. 

And you know, and I think that, you know, the other thing is, is we don't ask for, maybe we should ask for more, but you know, we're not, we're not beating up our members trying to give 'em to give us 5,000 or $10,000.

And I was like, what can you afford? What do you think? Mm-hmm. One, do you understand what we're doing and do you believe what we're doing? Okay, and then what do you think, whether it's, I originally when they invented the 99 club, 20 years ago, people that are just paid $99 a month and it just comes outta your credit card bill to your American Express card or whatever.

You so out of sight, out of mind, right? I think I'm like, oh, I don't know. That's not enough money. And then in reality. That's our most popular choice. But at the same time I talked to someone who's now on the board who started out at $20 a month. Yeah. And, and I used to laugh because I was PAC chair and I, when you're doing the, the quarterly or the semi-annual reports and just keep seeing the same name, $20, $20, $20, $20.

But you know what, that's what he could do. Right. So whether it's someone that does $20 or someone that does a hundred, you know, and you know, we have our founder's club is the people that at one time the, the max you could make in any in one year was 10, was $5,000. And we had never got, got anybody that gave us $5,000.

And one of our members did, and he maxed out, hit the five grand and we couldn't take any more money from him. And it was like. Wow. He said, we ought have something for that. And that's when we invented our, our Founder's Club. Right. And actually he came up with the name Founder's Club, but he gave the money and he said, I'll be the only one.

Eh. No he wasn't. So, 

well, if you're the first guy, you should be able to name the, name the club. Yeah, 

absolutely. At least he didn't wanna name it after himself, but true. Neil's Club. Yeah. What I had a, I had a nice name to or too, but I, you know, but we don't expect people to be writing this check for, I had $5,000.

We're just looking, you know, think about, see what we do. And once you find value in it. 

Yes. 

That's all we can ask.

On that note, I think we'll end this. So I will put here at the when a slide at the end with a link to our PAC in case anybody's interested in contributing. You know, if you can do $25, $250, $5,000, it, whatever amount is. Is great. It all contributes to the same pot and helps the cause. And you know, NAMB was founded on advocacy and that's still, you know, one of our leading pillars of of the organization.

So, absolutely. 

Thanks Jim. 

Thank you, Jim, for being a part. 

I, I hope to get at least one more episode. 

Absolutely. Definitely before September 30th. 

There you. 30 days pat up there. Oh, time is flying. 

Well, thank you everybody. Hope you have a great weekend and I look forward to speaking to you on the next Val's vibe. 

Stay 

healthy.